1.Sharing Together
A visitor of Inspirations and Creative Thought site recently asked, "Why people look to other teachers, saints, etc for so much guidance. Shouldn't our devotion come from within? Do we really need all these saints and guiders to show us truth, devotion, spiritual enlightenment through their lives, which are as ordinary as ours? Their struggles, simply because they are on a larger scale are no more grander than ours. We have the same capacity, nothing differentiates them from us, can we not be the same? Achieve the same struggle and state of nothingness? So why are we so in awe of them? They are simply human men and women."
"Spiritual journey is suppose to be solely concerned with one's own spiritual enlightenment and search for truth and God. Do we really need a spiritual teacher, a guide?" - that pretty much summarizes one of the most frequently asked question by people who are interested in spirituality.
This poor heart decided to keep the answer simpler here. What's important is to contemplate on what is not spoken, through the hints of the brief words. Verily God is the Granter of deeper understanding and Helper to see things as they truly are.
2.
Newton and the living Physics teacher
It is common sense that knowledge (in any discipline) is taken from one who has attained the knowledge, or at least have learned the fundamentals well. Instead of every one doing their own experiment to come up with the law of gravity, we send children to school, to a teacher who can help the child describe and explain the law of gravity.
We go to university to learn Physics from a living Professor of Physics; the learning transmit from a knowing mind to another mind. We dont just begin reading Physics lessons by grabbing the thickest book of Physics written by dead scientists without any living teacher, because that would be very inefficient, and reinventing the wheel again and again is not practical.
Similar in the Spiritual discipline (irrespective of any spiritual path) the learning is best transmitted by a teacher who already understand the fundamentals by his or her own journey (just as the Professor attained his own degree and approval from his own teacher who took his exam). The teacher in a science class transmit the knowledge from mind to mind. For a spiritual teacher this transmission happens from heart to heart. From time immemorial, every spiritual teacher did transmit from their heart to their disciples', companions heart. There are no exceptions.
It is very naive to think that spirituality can be learned through self-help book (which is arrogance in one hand and also a reflction of our selfish collective psyche in this age). If one to dive deep into any spiritual path, one come to know the alchemy of the self is not a subject that can be mastered through self-help book or by the parrot like memorization of holy books or book of religious rules. In a discipline like Physics one need to learn all the definitions of different terms, before one can solve a complex equation. How naive it is to think one can understand the meaning in its depth without even 'learning how to learn' . To give an example, to arrive at the meaning of the intricate many layered meanings of every single verse of the Quran, there are ways to learn 'how to read' even with the presence of the heart which the sufis call hudur al-qalb.
To journey in spiritual path one encounters terminologies such as qalb (inner heart), tawba (turning back to God), true piety (wara), tawakkul (trust in God), rida (contentment) to name just a few and each of them have many different levels. The knowledge of the soul (nafs) is a precondition to master the self. Arriving at real self-realization, not the kind which is sold as package in some yoga studio, is a matter of first discerning the delusions of the nafs which are many and unless the inner eye is open, everything seen is clouded by veil. And the knowledge of the soul (nafs), its characteristics and inclinations are many such as the subtleties of hypocrisy (riya), hidden lust (al-shahwat al-khafiyya), and hidden polytheism (al-shirk al-khafi) - which if one is not aware then one is susceptible to failure in entering into gnosis or in attaining the knowledge which is real. Without understanding the fundamental laws of physics a student is bound to fail in solving complex equations and practical problems. How unfortunate is the person who fail to attain at self-realization and fail this human birth filled with such exalted divine possibilities. Everything that is created, from this magnificent human body to the awesome cosmos is for an individual to reach that height and who is more unfortunate who doesn't look out for a master who can take him or her by the hand to the door of realization.
"It takes time to make a soul pregnant with God. But it can be done; IT WILL BE DONE...." - Bhai Sahib
"Is there somebody who can take me to the Lord?
I will go to him, touch his feet and kiss his hands,
And serve him faithfully, him,
who can take me to the Lord." - traditional Sikh prayer hymn
The sufis say that one who has traversed the seas of realities of certainty has seen the mirror of realization and is able to help others to attain the same. A true spiritual teacher does exactly such thing, or to be more correct, God provides guidance through such human beings who have traversed the seas of realities of certainty and have arrived at certainty.
"People think that a Sheikh should show miracles and manifest illumination. The requirement of a teacher, however, is only that he should possess all that the disciple needs." - Ibn Arabi
Some say, 'when we have book written by great masters, when we have scripture, then what is the need for a teacher? We can read Scripture, read about this Prophet, that Master. No need of a living master.'
The answer to this question is this, even though Newton might be much better scientist than the average Physics teacher at the science class of grade six, yet the living Physics teacher is more readily available to the student of that class, can offer instant answer derived from fundamentals of physics in response to their spontaneous question, can offer solutions to problems which may not readily available in dead Newton's written manuscript.
Others may say, 'why bother with so much complexity, learning this term, that term, these all sounds very confusing. I want simplicity.'
Thats exactly where the biggest role of a spiritual teacher comes into play because he by understanding the ability and unique capacity of individual disciple, gives slowly, gradually or make things simple or gives them certain practice needed for the progress of their soul based on their need and state. Thus often time the master may not give detail explanations of why this or that but may just ask the student to do certain thing or read and contemplate on certain passage for days or nights until his or her spiritual realization attain what is missing.
The parable of Physics teacher can continue and be shown in many ways to prove the point in plain logic that a guide is the most common sense approach to take in spiritual journey.
Sufi master Abû Sa‘îd was asked, “If someone wishes, is it possible to travel the mystic path without a teacher?” The Sheikh replied, “It is impossible because someone is required to guide him along the way, someone who has already reached the goal traveling that path, who will tell him what are faults and what are virtues on this path. At each stage he will say this is the such-and-such stage, here one must remain a little longer. And if there is a dangerous place somewhere, he will tell him to be on his guard, and will give him kindly encouragement, so that traveling that path with a strengthened heart, he may reach the goal. When he has reached the goal he will find peace.”
A visitor of Inspirations and Creative Thought site recently asked, "Why people look to other teachers, saints, etc for so much guidance. Shouldn't our devotion come from within? Do we really need all these saints and guiders to show us truth, devotion, spiritual enlightenment through their lives, which are as ordinary as ours? Their struggles, simply because they are on a larger scale are no more grander than ours. We have the same capacity, nothing differentiates them from us, can we not be the same? Achieve the same struggle and state of nothingness? So why are we so in awe of them? They are simply human men and women."
"Spiritual journey is suppose to be solely concerned with one's own spiritual enlightenment and search for truth and God. Do we really need a spiritual teacher, a guide?" - that pretty much summarizes one of the most frequently asked question by people who are interested in spirituality.
This poor heart decided to keep the answer simpler here. What's important is to contemplate on what is not spoken, through the hints of the brief words. Verily God is the Granter of deeper understanding and Helper to see things as they truly are.
2.
Newton and the living Physics teacher
It is common sense that knowledge (in any discipline) is taken from one who has attained the knowledge, or at least have learned the fundamentals well. Instead of every one doing their own experiment to come up with the law of gravity, we send children to school, to a teacher who can help the child describe and explain the law of gravity.
We go to university to learn Physics from a living Professor of Physics; the learning transmit from a knowing mind to another mind. We dont just begin reading Physics lessons by grabbing the thickest book of Physics written by dead scientists without any living teacher, because that would be very inefficient, and reinventing the wheel again and again is not practical.
Similar in the Spiritual discipline (irrespective of any spiritual path) the learning is best transmitted by a teacher who already understand the fundamentals by his or her own journey (just as the Professor attained his own degree and approval from his own teacher who took his exam). The teacher in a science class transmit the knowledge from mind to mind. For a spiritual teacher this transmission happens from heart to heart. From time immemorial, every spiritual teacher did transmit from their heart to their disciples', companions heart. There are no exceptions.
It is very naive to think that spirituality can be learned through self-help book (which is arrogance in one hand and also a reflction of our selfish collective psyche in this age). If one to dive deep into any spiritual path, one come to know the alchemy of the self is not a subject that can be mastered through self-help book or by the parrot like memorization of holy books or book of religious rules. In a discipline like Physics one need to learn all the definitions of different terms, before one can solve a complex equation. How naive it is to think one can understand the meaning in its depth without even 'learning how to learn' . To give an example, to arrive at the meaning of the intricate many layered meanings of every single verse of the Quran, there are ways to learn 'how to read' even with the presence of the heart which the sufis call hudur al-qalb.
To journey in spiritual path one encounters terminologies such as qalb (inner heart), tawba (turning back to God), true piety (wara), tawakkul (trust in God), rida (contentment) to name just a few and each of them have many different levels. The knowledge of the soul (nafs) is a precondition to master the self. Arriving at real self-realization, not the kind which is sold as package in some yoga studio, is a matter of first discerning the delusions of the nafs which are many and unless the inner eye is open, everything seen is clouded by veil. And the knowledge of the soul (nafs), its characteristics and inclinations are many such as the subtleties of hypocrisy (riya), hidden lust (al-shahwat al-khafiyya), and hidden polytheism (al-shirk al-khafi) - which if one is not aware then one is susceptible to failure in entering into gnosis or in attaining the knowledge which is real. Without understanding the fundamental laws of physics a student is bound to fail in solving complex equations and practical problems. How unfortunate is the person who fail to attain at self-realization and fail this human birth filled with such exalted divine possibilities. Everything that is created, from this magnificent human body to the awesome cosmos is for an individual to reach that height and who is more unfortunate who doesn't look out for a master who can take him or her by the hand to the door of realization.
"It takes time to make a soul pregnant with God. But it can be done; IT WILL BE DONE...." - Bhai Sahib
"Is there somebody who can take me to the Lord?
I will go to him, touch his feet and kiss his hands,
And serve him faithfully, him,
who can take me to the Lord." - traditional Sikh prayer hymn
The sufis say that one who has traversed the seas of realities of certainty has seen the mirror of realization and is able to help others to attain the same. A true spiritual teacher does exactly such thing, or to be more correct, God provides guidance through such human beings who have traversed the seas of realities of certainty and have arrived at certainty.
"People think that a Sheikh should show miracles and manifest illumination. The requirement of a teacher, however, is only that he should possess all that the disciple needs." - Ibn Arabi
Some say, 'when we have book written by great masters, when we have scripture, then what is the need for a teacher? We can read Scripture, read about this Prophet, that Master. No need of a living master.'
The answer to this question is this, even though Newton might be much better scientist than the average Physics teacher at the science class of grade six, yet the living Physics teacher is more readily available to the student of that class, can offer instant answer derived from fundamentals of physics in response to their spontaneous question, can offer solutions to problems which may not readily available in dead Newton's written manuscript.
Others may say, 'why bother with so much complexity, learning this term, that term, these all sounds very confusing. I want simplicity.'
Thats exactly where the biggest role of a spiritual teacher comes into play because he by understanding the ability and unique capacity of individual disciple, gives slowly, gradually or make things simple or gives them certain practice needed for the progress of their soul based on their need and state. Thus often time the master may not give detail explanations of why this or that but may just ask the student to do certain thing or read and contemplate on certain passage for days or nights until his or her spiritual realization attain what is missing.
The parable of Physics teacher can continue and be shown in many ways to prove the point in plain logic that a guide is the most common sense approach to take in spiritual journey.
Sufi master Abû Sa‘îd was asked, “If someone wishes, is it possible to travel the mystic path without a teacher?” The Sheikh replied, “It is impossible because someone is required to guide him along the way, someone who has already reached the goal traveling that path, who will tell him what are faults and what are virtues on this path. At each stage he will say this is the such-and-such stage, here one must remain a little longer. And if there is a dangerous place somewhere, he will tell him to be on his guard, and will give him kindly encouragement, so that traveling that path with a strengthened heart, he may reach the goal. When he has reached the goal he will find peace.”
3.
Consider this
Consider how wool is turned into an elegantly designed carpet by coming into contact with an intelligent person. See how dirt can be turned into a fine palace by coming into contact with an intelligent person.If association with the intelligent has such an effect on inanimate objects, think what effect will be when one seeker of God associate with another!
- Rumi, from The Rumi Collection by Editor, Kabir Helminski
4.
Does Islamic Spirituality validate living spiritual guide?
"Verily, those who give thee their allegiance, they give it but to God Himself, God's hand is upon their hands ..." - The Quran 48:10
First lets talk about the sufis who even in this age still maintain and guard the holy tradition of a living spiritual guide for every age. And the concept of Spiritual Master is inspired by no other than the prophetic model of that of Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace, the Seal of Prophet after whom there will be no Prophet until the end time where second coming of Christ happens. The basis of the duties that bind the master and disciple together are found not only in the Prophetic tradition (Sunnah) but in the very text of the Quran.
First of all if we turn to Quran, the opening chapter, Surah al Fatiha which is the synthesis of the Quran and all other revealed Divine Book, here we read as part, "O Lord Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help. Show us the straight way, the way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace. Not the path of those whose (portion) is wrath, nor of those who go astray."
This portion of the Quran which is repeated by every Muslim in every prayer summarizes the way of the spiritual guidance and the guide.
It first affirms that we turn none other but to God, but the way to walk is exemplified by the way "of those on whom God has bestowed His Grace."
It is perfectly true that for the Sufis the focal point is exclusively God and guidance comes from God alone. But important question is to ask, what guidance comes "through"? What is the medium? The apple seed is through which the magnificent apple tree come through and hidden in that one seed many more apples yet. The seed is small but the secret inside is tremendous. So does God's grace manifest through vehicles and one of the magnificent vehicle of grace is a living spiritual master.
Another very important vehicle is the inner heart of the seeker, the faculty of real understanding, that's why a major practice in Islamic spirituality / Sufi path is to polish the heart, to purify the heart. Thus Sufism is also known as the Science of Purification of Heart. When the heart is pure it is ready to absorb and reflect the light of truth and where guidance descend from the Real Source.
"Show us the right path, the path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace. Not the path of those whose (portion) is wrath, nor of those who go astray."
This end portion of Surah Fatiha is the calibration scale against which a true spiritual guide can be measured. One is taught to pray to Lord to be shown and to have the vision of straight way (right path, the Tao) to self-realization and ultimately to God realization. Yet the path is defined as, "the way of those" who has the grace of God.
What about guides who spiritually abuse people? Who mislead or who only pretend to be a guide, who are wolves in sheep's skin? Yes thats why its part of the prayer also to teach humanity that it must not be "the path of those whose portion is God's wrath, nor of those who go astray".
Islam absolutely validate the tradition of transmission and receiving spiritual knowledge from heart to heart. This was the model of the Prophet who passed his knowledge, both zahir (inward) and batin (outward) to his close companions, who in turn passed it on to the next and through chain of successive spiritual guides this knowledge continue and guarded. Even during his own life time the Prophet used to send his selected companions to different places to teach the community and instructed them to live with them so that they can represent the Prophet in being and in teaching.
The Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace said: "The Children of Israel used to be guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; The knowers are the inheritors of the prophets."
"In my community there will be my elect followers who will have status equal that of the Prophets from the Bani Israel (Children of Israel)."
First of all if we turn to Quran, the opening chapter, Surah al Fatiha which is the synthesis of the Quran and all other revealed Divine Book, here we read as part, "O Lord Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help. Show us the straight way, the way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace. Not the path of those whose (portion) is wrath, nor of those who go astray."
This portion of the Quran which is repeated by every Muslim in every prayer summarizes the way of the spiritual guidance and the guide.
It first affirms that we turn none other but to God, but the way to walk is exemplified by the way "of those on whom God has bestowed His Grace."
It is perfectly true that for the Sufis the focal point is exclusively God and guidance comes from God alone. But important question is to ask, what guidance comes "through"? What is the medium? The apple seed is through which the magnificent apple tree come through and hidden in that one seed many more apples yet. The seed is small but the secret inside is tremendous. So does God's grace manifest through vehicles and one of the magnificent vehicle of grace is a living spiritual master.
Another very important vehicle is the inner heart of the seeker, the faculty of real understanding, that's why a major practice in Islamic spirituality / Sufi path is to polish the heart, to purify the heart. Thus Sufism is also known as the Science of Purification of Heart. When the heart is pure it is ready to absorb and reflect the light of truth and where guidance descend from the Real Source.
"Show us the right path, the path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace. Not the path of those whose (portion) is wrath, nor of those who go astray."
This end portion of Surah Fatiha is the calibration scale against which a true spiritual guide can be measured. One is taught to pray to Lord to be shown and to have the vision of straight way (right path, the Tao) to self-realization and ultimately to God realization. Yet the path is defined as, "the way of those" who has the grace of God.
What about guides who spiritually abuse people? Who mislead or who only pretend to be a guide, who are wolves in sheep's skin? Yes thats why its part of the prayer also to teach humanity that it must not be "the path of those whose portion is God's wrath, nor of those who go astray".
Islam absolutely validate the tradition of transmission and receiving spiritual knowledge from heart to heart. This was the model of the Prophet who passed his knowledge, both zahir (inward) and batin (outward) to his close companions, who in turn passed it on to the next and through chain of successive spiritual guides this knowledge continue and guarded. Even during his own life time the Prophet used to send his selected companions to different places to teach the community and instructed them to live with them so that they can represent the Prophet in being and in teaching.
The Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace said: "The Children of Israel used to be guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; The knowers are the inheritors of the prophets."
"In my community there will be my elect followers who will have status equal that of the Prophets from the Bani Israel (Children of Israel)."
5.
The Concept of Spiritual Guide in Judeo-Christian Tradition
Some argue that with evolution of the history of christian church, the role of Renaissance and science, the western spirituality evolved to become more mind-oriented, where as eastern spirituality is more devotional or heart-oriented. For this reason its observed that often its very difficult for western mind or westerners particularly to grasp and accept the idea of devotion, deep love and respect to a particular teacher, a guide in spiritual path. Sometime with weird association this brings up immediately the idea of a cult to some. But a true spiritual teacher who is free from ego never asks for the spot light on himself, put always is humble, free from egoic self-projection and if one does like that - such people must be avoided, let alone be taken as a guide.Interesting to note that at the heart of the true Judeo-Christian tradition the tremendous role of spiritual guide is gloriously present. Moses, holy benediction be upon him, was the spiritual guide for the children of Israel and while he went into his solitary retreat at Mount Sinai, he appointed his brother Aaron as the spiritual guide of the community in his absence. The tradition of spiritual guide continued with Hebrew sages who were considered specially inspired to give guidance to people. Their inspired writings are considered holy with high importance.
The role of Christ, upon him be peace, is even more striking as a Murshid or guide who beheld the special magnetism or charisma in this heart and transmitted this from his heart to the disciples.
In calling of his first disciples we read in Matthew Chapter 4, "As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men." At once they left their nets and followed him.
Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. They were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them, and immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him."
If one read this paragraph plainly one may not see the magic, but one who knows the tremendous magnetism that a true master of truth possess in his heart, one will recognize that in Christ. A true teacher's presence alone is works as a miracle like this. Who else can his simply call, "Come, follow me, I will make you fishers of men" and only to be followed by utter deovtion and self-sacrifice. There are no so called high spiritual discourse, no metaphysical promise of secret, but a simple call, 'Come, follow me!' When the disciples were ready, the Master appeared and by the permission of God, such a simple pronouncement is enough to seal a connection between the hearts.
It is the magnetism of a true Murshid that attract the disciple like how moth is attracted to flame. The presence of a master triggers the magic of heart to heart transmission.
And an indication that the transmission of guidance and call to truth continues, is proven by the saying of Christ before his leaving this world when he addressed his saddened companions, "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another counselor to be with you.." (John 14:16). And such counselors of heart are still to be found amidst humanity, remaining always beholding the fragrance of God.
Without further elaboration it is needless to say that a true guide in spiritual journey is validated in every spiritual path, no matter what its name be or where it originated on earth.
6.
The spiritual master is to his community, what the Prophet is to his nation. - Abu Said Ibn Abil Khayr
And God knows the Best, on Whom rests the First and the Last. He is the Perfect Knower.
Ya Hadi
Invoking The Sole Guide of Soul
Ya Rashid
Invoking The Appointer to the Right Path, The Director of the Heart and Affairs
Ya Hadi
Invoking The Sole Guide of Soul
Ya Rashid
Invoking The Appointer to the Right Path, The Director of the Heart and Affairs
# Related:
. Seeking the Complete Human
. SatGuru | Kamil Murshid
. We are a Door that's never Locked
. With Sufi Guide, Sidi Muhammad al Jamal
. On Traveling the Sufi Path | Interview with Dr. Stewart Bitkoff
. Spiritual Traveler: Finding a Teacher
. Jesus the Murshid
45 comments:
:) Namaste
Thank you.
If it was not for the guidance of spiritual friends at important moments of my life, I would still be floundering in confusion, judgement and rage.
We are all children of God. Even our enemies can be our best teachers. But words, at the right moment, by a trusted and loved guide offer comfort in that dark of darkest places.
With love
Sadiq Bhai,
You have written well. I am glad Aliya and I left it to you to respond to Mariam’s inquiry.
I agree with what Mariam wrote, “It is nice to read all these thoughts and motivations from other men, but the I believe fact remains, the only Divine guidance comes from the Quran”.
As for me, I don’t surrender to any sheikh or guru. Quran is enough for me. God is my Sheikh. I only surrender no god but God and prostrate before One and only One God. God keeps his promises. The promise He made to me is in verse 18:65 (Quran - Please see below-1). That promise is enough for me. Thank God I have been saved from so many false sheikhs and gurus by that verse. I have given up all the sheikhs and gurus of the past, the present, and the future for the promise of that one verse.
Having wrote the above, it does not mean I don’t respect sheikhs and mystics of other faiths. I read books not only of the Islamic faith but books of other faiths also. In all of my readings, however, Quran is my compass.
My question to you is this: Where does verse 18:65 of Quran fits in regarding your discussion about spiritual guide. The promise of this verse is to every seeker of truth. In commentary to this verse, Abdullah Yusuf Ali (may God be pleased with him) wrote, “…Khidr means “Green”: his knowledge is fresh and green, and drawn out of the living sources of life for it is drawn from Allah’s own Presence. He is a mysterious being, who had to be sought out. He has the secrets of the paradoxes of Life, which ordinary people do not understand, or understand in a wrong sense….”
1. “So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught Knowledge from Our own Presence. (18:65).
The Meaning of The Holy Qur’an by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, New Edition with Revised Translation and Commentary, Published by Amana Corporation, Copyright 1414 A.H./1994 A.C. Amana Corp.
we really need a guide in spiritual journey? Do we really
Please respond.
Thanks,
AV
Assalam Alaikum Wa rahamatullah Wa barakatuh
For past two days i have been reading the honest and healthy discussion going on betweeen brother AV and Sister Aliya....
i am no body on this path nor a subject matter expert on Quran or any of religious scriptures,but as Sadiq rightly said that in order to learn the deeper meaning of physics its better we have contact of live teacher or a person who has knowledge in that regard .. so we are able to comprehend and understand the deeper meaning behind the various concepts and laws of physics ...
and in the Surah 2:22 YUSUFALI: Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).
There is not wavering on the part that when every Muslim says the Shahada La Illah IlAllah Mohammedun Rasoolallah...the matter ends there and we have Quran as our only guidance...however in any path we follow there are people who have reached an higher station or level of understanding and if they teach us the inner and deeper meaning behind each and every verse of quran ..it would be an good sharing.
however as its is written its very difficult to find true teacher or shiekh in this dunya ..but there are teachers who are hidden and some of them who are known do have higher station ..and they do not waver from what is written in the Quran but they are hard to find..
For me if i give my personal example this blog has been instrumental for opening my heart and see the right path ... so even if i had read books on mysticism and even quran the deeper meaing behind it would had been hidden had it not i had this blog ! no i refer it as a hidden treasure trove which did act as a beacon for me to know the truth ....so i consider Saidq as my dear friend and an fellow brother on the sufi path or even in islam and he does have a higher level of Understanding then me and knowledge which is vast ...say i am in grade 1 and he is in hhe has reached the level of masters degree...so i feel its necessary to take some kind of inspiration and guidance from everyone....
However We need to follow our heart as Aliya said and also as Av Said God is my sheikh alone...no argument about it however for me personally i am looking for truth and taking drops of wisdom from everywhere and praying to Allah (swt) i do not fall into any trap ..however i feel if i go to an shiekh any he guides me there is no harm in it ...
But this is a very thin line and where the border needs to be drawn thats a question which is still out there....
and this is a story i read
There was a shy young man who loved Shaykh Abd al Qadir Jilani very much and followed the Sultan of the Saints at a distance. One day a thought came to his mind that I wish the Shaykh would show me a miracle [karamat: charismata]. The Shaykh, who was some yards ahead, hit his staff on the floor and it suddenly became a huge pillar of light which went from the ground to the sky. The young man was astounded and delighted. The Shaykh then clasped the pillar and it became a staff again. The Shaykh turned to him, smiled, and said, “Is that all you wanted to see?”
May we are able to have the company of such shiekhs and may Allah (swt) so us the way
Continued from previous post ....
A loose, unbridled, camel never reaches it’s destination and wherever it goes it is beaten and hit. A camel in a line (of camels) however, no matter how thin and weak it is, definitely will reach it’s destination.
May all of us be like the camel in a line and we are able to reach the destination and Astagfirullah if i offended any one was giving my one cent worth of thoughts..
Dear Sadiq,
Thanks for the excellent post. The discussion in comments is also interesting.
Taking God as your 'Sheikh' does not (I hope) reduce the sigificance of the Prophet (saws) as his messenger. Even Allah Ta'ala sends a living example to the people so that they may learn.
Khidr (as) was bestowed riches of knowledge by Allah Ta'ala but Moses had to learn the same knowledge through Khidr (Surah Kahaf). Expecting all of us to acquire knowledge like Khidr (as) is similar to imagining all physics students to be Einsteins.
We accept teachers and masters in our life - at school, college, karate classes, even for driving lessons. But for the most important thing - the spiritual journey of our life - we believe we can do without a guide...
Of course the risk of false masters is real. But the challenge is to search in right earnest rather than abandon the quest. When the disciple is (really) ready, the (real) Master will appear!
When the disciple is (really) ready, the (real) Master will appear!
your are 100% correct
Dear Sadiq,
Thank you for this post! You have made it clear. It takes a great force to overcome nafs. Nafs will deny this. I speak from my own experience.
You have made it clear that this force, this grace, is, of course, Allah, the Divine, through the straight sluice known as the Murshid, Pir, Shaykh to the receptive heart.
That's my understanding.
All good wishes,
mo'in
James,
I did not know God plays pranks and is pretender of help.
Some of these stories have various interpretations.
You don’t ask a drowning man, can I help you? If you really want to save him from drowning, you jump in. You can preach and teach him later.
Maybe you get from God what you expect from Him?
AV
Abrahim,
“Taking God as your 'Sheikh' does not (I hope) reduce the significance of the Prophet (saws) as his messenger”.
No, it does not.
AV
The art of the Masterful,
is to impart the unteachable ~
To reflect the light of Divine Understanding ~
To remind you of who you "really" are.
For as long as we walk upon this earth, Spiritual Masters will always be here. Thank Goodness ~ as humanity has never been more in need of their Presence.
Need of a guide...
it takes some humility, some emptiness, some consciousness, knowledge of the fact that we know less and ofcourse use Quran and Shariah as the compass in selection of the Sheikh... after that all you begun with will be all you have to their highest degrees i.e becoming into annihilation, nothingness, conscience!
Fear not, hope more, trust Lord and seek guidance from Him,
may HE send the best to you when you r ready or make you ready for it when the time comes, whatever channel HE chooses to guide;
He does as He wills.
on the path of tariqat or suluk, all r saliks (seekers) at different stations some Sheikhs, some Murids, Murids too become Sheikhs at some point if they reach that station... even the unconscious ones who r not following the path with open eyes head towards Him.
"Ya Haadi, Ya Rahim!"
-Farheen
Do we need a guide in spiritual journey? This question needs to be understood because it is a bit complicated. The question is two sided – one side refers to the master and one side to the disciple. Most of you have said “When the disciple is ready, the master comes”. But when is the disciple ready and who is the real master?
My understanding is that:
The real spiritual teacher, the Master is not a master over others, but a master of himself --and this self-mastery is reflected in his every gesture and his every word. He is not a teacher with a doctrine to impart, nor a supernatural messenger with a direct line to God, but simply one who has become a living example of the highest potential that lies within each and every human being. In the eyes of the Master, a disciple finds his own truth reflected. In the silence of the Master's presence, the disciple can fall more easily into the silence of his own being. The community of seekers that arises around a Master becomes an energy field that supports each unique individual in finding his or her own inner light. Once that light is found, the disciple comes to understand that the outer Master was just a catalyst, a device to provoke the awakening of the inner.
"People think that a Sheikh should show miracles and manifest illumination. The requirement of a teacher, however, is only that he should possess all that the disciple needs." - Ibn Arabi.
I fully agree with Ibn Arabi.
Brother Vimesh prefers to have the company of sheichks doing miracles.
To do a miracle is great, but not great enough. To do a miracle is still to be in the world of the ego. A real greatness is so ordinary that it claims nothing; it is so ordinary that it never tries to prove anything.
A man came to Lin Chi and said, "My master is a great psychic. What do you say about your Master? What can your Master do, what miracles?"
Lin Chi asked, "What miracles has your Master been doing?"
The disciple said, "One day he told me to go to the other bank of the river, and I stood there with a piece of paper in my hand. The river was very wide, almost one mile. He was standing on the other bank and from there he started writing with a fountain pen, and the writing came on my paper. This I have seen myself, I am a witness! What can your Master do?"
Lin Chi said, "When he is hungry he eats, and when he is sleepy he goes to sleep."
The man said, "What are you talking about? You call these miracles? Everybody is doing that!"
Lin Chi said, "Nobody is doing that. When you sleep you do a thousand and one things. When you eat you think a thousand and one things. When my Master sleeps he simply sleeps; no tossing, no turning, not even a dream. Only sleep exists in that moment, nothing else. And when he feels hungry he eats. He is always wherever he is."
What is the point of writing from one bank of a river to the other bank? It is just foolish. Only foolish people would be interested in it. What is the point?
Somebody went to Ramakrishna and said, "My Master is a great man. He can walk on the water."
Ramakrishna said, "Foolish! Because I can simply go to the ferryman, and for just two pennies he takes me to the other side. Your Master is a fool. Go and make him aware that he should not waste his life. It can be done so easily."
But the mind is always hankering. The mind is nothing but hankering, desiring something to happen. Sometimes it is thinking about money, to have more money, to have bigger houses, to have more respect-ability, to have more political power. Then you turn towards spirituality; the mind remains the same. Now you want to have more psychic powers--telepathy, clairvoyance, and all sorts of nonsense. But the mind remains the same--you want more. The same game continues.
Now it is telepathy, or clairvoyance, or psychic powers: "If you can do this, I can do more than this. I can read people's thoughts thousands of miles away."
Life in itself is a miracle, but the ego is not ready to accept that. It wants to do something special, something that nobody else is doing, something extraordinary.
As far as the question implies the disciple, if the disciple does not yet have the urge to find the master, then there is no way to help to find him. If you have the urge, that very urge helps. There is no other help needed. Your very urge becomes your path. How do you find if you are thirsty, in a desert; how will you find water, how will you find an oasis? You will run hither and thither; you will do all that you can do because thirst will be killing.
And your thirst will decide whether you have come across real water or not, because your thirst will be quenched whenever you come across real water. If it is a mirage and from far away it looked like water and you ran to it, when you come face to face with it you will know it is not water. But the only criterion is your thirst. How do you know that something is food? -- if you are hungry and it satisfies you, you know. It is very difficult for a man who has no appetite to find out what food is. If you don't have an appetite then I say the problem is very difficult, almost impossible to solve. If you have appetite and hunger, then something around an enlightened person will start fulfilling your desire. Something will start falling in harmony and in line. Your chaos will start subsiding. You will see a silence arising -- a new being is born. That is the only way. But if you don't have a real thirst, or if you have been confused by the society, and if you cling to outer symptoms.... (Osho) then it will be difficult for you to “take drops of wisdom from everywhere”, as brother Vimesh very correctly emphasized upon.
If the desire of the seeker is tremendous, then even an unenlightened Master is enough. It is reported about one great mystic, Milarepa: When he went to his Master in Tibet, he was so humble, so pure, so authentic, that other disciples became jealous of him. It was certain that he would be the successor. And of course there was politics, so they tried to kill him.
One day they said to him, "If you really believe in the Master, can you jump from the hill? If you really believe, if the trust is there, then nothing -- no harm is going to happen." And Milarepa jumped without even hesitating for a single moment. They rushed down because it was almost a three-thousand-foot deep valley. They went down to find his scattered bones, but he was sitting there in a lotus posture, very happy, tremendously happy.
He opened his eyes and said, "You are right; trust saves."
They thought it must be some coincidence, so when the house was on fire one day, they told him, "If you love your Master and you trust, you can go in." He rushed in to save the woman and the child who were left inside. He came, and the fire was too great and they were hoping that he would die, but he was not burned at all. And he became more and more radiant, because the trust....One day they were going somewhere, they were to cross a river, and they told him, "You need not go in the boat. You have such great trust; you can walk on the river" -- and he walked.
That was the first time the Master saw him. He was not aware that he had been told to jump into the valley and told to go into the burning house; he was not aware. But that time he was there on the bank and he saw him walking, and he said, "What are you doing? It is impossible!"
And Milarepa said, "Not impossible at all! I am doing it by your power, sir."Now the Master thought, "If my name and my power can do this to this ignorant, stupid man.... I have never tried it myself"...so he tried. He drowned. Nothing has been heard about him after that.
Even an unenlightened Master, with deep trust, can revolutionize your life. And the reverse is also true: even an enlightened Master may not be of any help. It depends on you, it depends totally on you. (Excerpts from Osho talks)
No situation is without a lesson, no situation at all. All situations are pregnant, but you have to discover; it may not be available on the surface. You have to be watchful; you have to look at all the aspects of the situation.
To come back to the words of Cailean Benjamin, as they say it all:
THE ART OF THE MASTERFUL,
IS TO IMPART THE UNTEACHABLE ~
TO REFLECT THE LIGHT OF DIVINE UNDERSTANDING ~
TO REMIND YOU OF WHO YOU "REALLY" ARE.
Dear Vimesh, we, human beings are not camels, are we? We are the bridge to connect the material to the divine. We are no more from the animal world and we do not need to stand in a line. We are the abode of the Truth and with Truth in us we do not need to hide behind others’ backs. Buddha says: “Be a light unto yourself!” Vivekananda says: “You cannot believe in God until you believe in yourself “. You are such an innocent and pure soul, Vimesh – believe more in your real nature.(Hope you will pardon my sincerity:)
Aliya,
It is not your sincerity. It is your EGO talking. Why are you seeking forgiveness? You stab someone intentionally, and then you say, "You are so sorry. I did not mean it. Please forgive me." You are all EGO.
Most of these stories are written to illustrate a point. It may have different interpretations. Would you like it better if I say we are all like Rolls-Royces lined-up in one lane waiting for the traffic police to let us go through a busy intersection so we can reach our final destination safe and sound? I don’t like getting scratches on my Rolls-Royce. I can only afford one. I am working toward seven so I will have it in seven different colors one for each day of the week. Can you tell me how can I afford seven?
What kind of light are you? RED, white, blue, green, yellow, orange, black, etc. When I see your name, I see RED light!
Do you know what adab is? Do you have to argue about everything with everyone? I think you are committed to nothing. You like to play the devil advocate. Devil advocates have no sincerity but have tremendous desire to get attention and approval. They can not say to their talking Ego to keep quiet and just listen.
AV
Mawlānā Jalāl ud-Dīn, Rūmī says, “Search for your Shaykh for without a Shaykh this journey is full of tribulation, fear and dangers.”
Regarding the importance of a Shaykh, Mawlānā Rūmī says: “Without the shade of the Shaykh one cannot annihilate the self [nafs] thus hold firm to the sleeve of a perfect Pīr if you seek annihilation of the inner base self [nafs].”
Khwājah Bahā’ud-Dīn said: “My son, love of Allāh is not obtainable without a perfect Pīr – Kāmil Shaykh paving your way.”
Mawlānā ‘Abd al-Rahmān Jāmī, referring to the author of the famous ‘Mathnawī Sharīf’ Mawlānā Jalāl ud-Dīn Rūmī, says: “The Scholar of Rūm could not become a Master up until he became the slave of Shams Tabrez.”
http://www.spiritualfoundation.net/needforaguide.htm#108744383
Sadiq bhai, i dont u cud hav missed on this one!!
http://www.spiritualfoundation.net/needforaguide.htm#108744383
Hi AV,
Didn't get the point.
I agree guidance comes from Eshwar=GOD=Allah.
But why through Quran only?
Why a living teacher can't do that?
Everyting teaches, everybody teaches. One has to learn.
Depends how u have perceive it.
The same Geetha/Bible/Quran make u a saint or
it can produce an Irritating brainless cast supporting bramhin or orthodox rude christian or fanatic jehadi!
One shouldn't be that mindless to follow blindly and say that has made me this !
AV,
Anger is always a sign of weakness. If you suddenly awake in the middle of anger, you will feel a peace you have never felt before. Energy was moving and suddenly it stops--you will have silence, immediate silence. You will fall into your inner being and the fall will be so sudden, you will become aware.
Silence is the door. Inner peace is the door. Nonviolence is the door. Love and compassion are the doors.
Aliya,
I will believe you when you start practicing what you preach. For now, I believe you have absolutely no commitment to anyone. You love to play the devil advocate. On this path you need three things: commitment, commitment, and commitment. To make progress on the path, you need to bring a “sound heart” and “sincere longing”. Climb on the ladder of sincerity toward your goal so it will take you to higher and higher stations along the path. Devil advocate has neither sincerity nor commitment. For her, anything goes. Your search is similar to someone bar hoping on weekend in search of fun and pleasure and trying to find a perfect someone. At the end of the weekend, all you got is terrific headache from all that drinking, and now you are even further from your goal than before.
AV
Hah!
What is the base of belief that Aliya has no committment towards anyone?
And which doctorine says that someone who talks abt nonviolence, love and compassion is advocating the Devil !!!
Better to respect the others as one respects self.
Or else it pretty normal that people think exactly the same as you think abt them.
And the very basic is why should one hammer someone else's belief. The path has to be uniquely different which merges at the end that is the beauty of this.
Its quite obvious that divine expresses itself in one form or the other. If someone discards everything saying its not spiritual, it should come directly from source,I hardly believe that they can attain the formless truth...
AV,
I have not asked anything from you – neither belief nor obedience nor following instructions or orders. I am just sharing my being with fellow travelers on the path to the Beloved the same way other visitors of this webpage share. A truth seeker as you pretend to be will never abuse others by throwing on them his vomit of hate and rage or by accusing them for his own perplexed state of being; for his sick and hateful mind. Unwillingly, I will say it – you are in a big problem with your own self. And remember – my intention is not to harm you as you want to harm me. I am just the mirror mirroring your confused state of mind. I think you should apology to the visitors of this blog of religiousness for the lack of true religiousness and compassion in your heart, for the lack of tolerance and acceptance of the existing. Denying people and abusing them will simply lead you to the path of destruction. Before you destroy yourself and others around you (remember terrorists and the harm they cause to people by their non acceptance of the different), settle it with your own self. Apology to your own being, accept it and through silence and love connect to your inner most center of existence, where Allah waits for you. There is a basic law of existence you should be aware about - by denying others, you in fact deny your own self, because only the One is.
Thank you, Subhasmita, for the support. It seems very courageous women visit this blog:)
To light a candle, you need a burning candle. Just as one candle can light many other sleeping candles, so can a illumined soul alone can enlighten many other unawakened soul by the grace of God Who is the Source of Real Light.
That single burning candle, that illuminated soul is the spiritual teacher. Dont pride yourself not needing the fire to illuminate while you are sleeping all along.
Moses saw the fire at the burning bush at the side of Mount Sinai
and ran to it without hesitation,
and behold what fire indeed he found!
Greetings of Peace to all and thank you for your contributions.
I will appreciate very much if we refrain from personal attack / judgment / lack of sensitivity and adab on our part directed to another.
Selected comments are compiled as a new post here.
:-)Not to worry Aliya,whenever u r true, I will be with u.
And similarly whenever AV or anybody else is true I am always with them.
Adi always avoids arguments. But I always believe its an healthy way to express self. So many times we have so many conceptions or misconceptions. By talking abt them freely we can share and learn.
Yeah but all the involved parties should be in a mood to listen, learn and accept.
One should respect self as well as others also :-)
AV,
The three things are Committment, Communication and Contentment.
the 4th C any guesses?
well dat can b Caught,
funny!! and a reason to love this virtual world.
Kp up d discussions however!
Aliya,
your sweetness wud require strength to limits of a stubborn but anyways
Knowlegde enlightens ALL.
Praise b to God, i love this blog!
Anonymous,
I agree with you on the three C's but the 4th C, no.
Aliya,
I guess you speak from your own experience. The things you accused me of are really your own experiences projecting it to me and others. Self-reference is a terrible way to look at others.
I remember couple of weeks ago you did not believe in outer. You were so focused on the inner. Everything was based on inner. All of sudden you have discovered the outer Master. It is a spiritual equivalent of a flip-flop John Kerry did during his presidential election. You lack commitment and consistency. It tells me that you play the devil advocate (meaning you argue for the sake argument). You don’t think your position through.
“It seems very courageous women visit this blog”. What women got to do with it? Are you starting a gender war on this blog? Are you asking that you should be treated differently because you are woman? I don’t get your comment about “courageous women.” Are you now asking for outer help? What happened to the inner?
Instead of answering questions, you go on a tangent. You are like an unguided missile.
Your whole spirituality is based on hate ego, hate self, and hate organized religions. What good is false sense of humility, hate of ego, hate of self, and hate of organized religions?
When spirituality is based on hate, it usually unravels. If you answer yes or no to these questions, it will lead to the complete destruction of your spiritual system. Maybe that is the reason you are dodging these questions. Deep down you know that hate of ego, hate of self, and hate of organized religions is not going to solve your problems. Hate in the heart does not solve problems, but it creates more problems. You hate organized religion so you fear it. You fear organized religion so you hate it. It is a vicious circle. Hate and fear, fear and hate, and hate and fear.
CV
Aliya,
Continuation of the above post.
As for me, I love myself, my ego, and organized religions. I don’t have false sense of humility. I wish you were honest as I am with myself and others. Yes, I do have adab, and I am diplomatic and tactful. Respect is a two way street. Most people want respect, but they never give it back.
Here is something to think about: My life is for itself and not for a spectacle….What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think”. From Ralph Waldo Emerson’s Essay on Self-Reliance.
CV
James,
As I mentioned before, these stories can be interpreted in different ways. Something similar was addressed in either one of Drs. Seyyed Hossein Nasr or Annemarie Schimmel's books. Please correct me if I am misquoting either one of the Drs because it has been awhile I have read the book that I am thinking about. According to Dr. Nasr or Dr. Schimmel, these stories and discourses were written as private correspondences between the Sufi master and his disciples so we have to be careful to draw conclusions from it because we do not know in the context it was said. Keeping in mind, the spiritual station of the individual disciple it was given this as instructions.
Perfect example is when Aliya rebuked Vimesh for mentioning something about camels.
Vimesh said: A loose, unbridled, camel never reaches it’s destination and wherever it goes it is beaten and hit. A camel in a line (of camels) however, no matter how thin and weak it is, definitely will reach it’s destination.
Aliya responded with this: Dear Vimesh, we, human beings are not camels, are we? We are the bridge to connect the material to the divine. We are no more from the animal world and we do not need to stand in a line. We are the abode of the Truth and with Truth in us we do not need to hide behind others’ backs. Buddha says: “Be a light unto yourself!” Vivekananda says: “You cannot believe in God until you believe in yourself “. You are such an innocent and pure soul, Vimesh – believe more in your real nature.(Hope you will pardon my sincerity:)
Do you see the point I am making?
Here is another one: This from Aliya’s post.
Somebody went to Ramakrishna and said, "My Master is a great man. He can walk on the water."
Ramakrishna said, "Foolish! Because I can simply go to the ferryman, and for just two pennies he takes me to the other side. Your Master is a fool. Go and make him aware that he should not waste his life. It can be done so easily."
Do you know in what context this was said? Ramakrishna comes across as a stern spiritual master. What do you make of Ramakrishna’s comments?
Inayat Khan says in one of his writings that we should rise above day to day difficulties and annoyances. He uses the phrase “walk on water” when he is referring to rise above the day to day difficulties and annoyances.
CV
Anonymous,
Please don’t take me wrong. I have tremendous respect and admiration for Rumi, Khwajah, Jami, and many other shaykhs. I am enormously in debt to them. I would not have reached the stage I have reached without their teachings. However, if I have a choice among them and Quranic verse 18:65 “So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught Knowledge from Our own Presence”. Without hesitation, I will choose18:65. I have chosen 18:65, and 18:65 have chosen me.
As for me, I don’t surrender to any sheikh or guru. Quran is enough for me. God is my Sheikh. I only surrender no god but God and prostrate before One and only One God. God keeps his promises. The promise He made to me is in verse 18:65. That promise is enough for me. Thank God I have been saved from so many false sheikhs and gurus by that verse. I have given up all the sheikhs and gurus of the past, the present, and the future for the promise of that one verse.
God is making a promise in this verse to all the seekers of truth.
How do you reconcile the verse below with surrendering to a shaykh?
“Who can be better in religion than one who submits(surrender) his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in faith? For Allah did take Abraham for a friend”. (Quran, Verse 4:125, Yusuf Ali).
Does it say in the Quran that we should surrender to a Shaykh?
CV
Subhasmita,
What is the Quran? It is direct communication from Allah. Why not through the Quran? Allah speaks to each one of us through the Quran.
If you can find it through other than the Quran, I don’t have a problem with it.
I have made my choice. It is the Quran. Quran is my compass, and it will always be my compass.
But why through Quran only?
What other can give me that Muhammad, Quran, and Islam have not blessed me with? I got the Moon so I have no use for the Stars!
However, stop this foolish talk of "My heart has become receptive of every form. It is a meadow for gazelles, a monastery for monks, an abode for idols, the Ka`ba of the pilgrim, the tables of the Torah, the Qur'an. My religion is love - wherever its camels turn, Love is my belief, my faith." What is Love without Commitment? It is called promiscuity. Make commitment to One. If you are not making commitment, you are not loyal. Price of Love is Loyalty. Can you serve two lovers/masters?
CV
Not a problem CV, you are blessed with Quran. When we are saying its wrong!
But why should you comment when someone says I am blessed with my master?
And who gave you the authority to say yours in moon and ours is star!
OKAY NO WORRIES SUN IS THE STAR.
MOON IS THE SATELLITE.
Who is the major energy source?
Be updated buddy .
Not a problem if you are considering yourself at a prestigious level but others are not less than that.
Seems condeming others defines your commitment. Heh.
To hell with such a student who can't respect and tolerate others.
That is how a disciple becomes a saint or stupid.
Better start knowing and reading others as well.
or else one can say star is yours and moon is mine !
We are happy okay :-)
But we are not stupid to discard moon also. We know we need it as well.
Be happy without star CV.
Dear All,
I think we all need a good laughing after all the “seriousness” of “AV, CV, Tahir”’s abundant wording and unasked argumentation of a hurt ego.
I totally agree with Anonymous that “AV, CV, Tahir” finally got caught in his own spider web, weaved from his own restless mind. He gave to all of us a very clear example of how a restless mind and his imaginary product, the ego, can harm badly his human being and take him away of his true self. What will all the pretentions for Quran knowledge and direct promise from Allah serve “AV, CV, Tahir”, if they are only food for his mind and have never reached his heart? In all the vain wording of his and parrot like quotations I noticed even not a single word uttered by his heart. All words he bombarded us with are simple mind rubbish, mind junk; his being has not been really immersed in what he talked. Truth cannot be borrowed; truth can only be experienced with all your being. Quran is for people with hearts, for people with courage who will not use some quotations from the holy book only with the purpose to build a protection wall around them. Quran is for people who are ready to become a living experience of the Truth. And how can you live the Truth, if you are not full of it, if your heart is not full of compassion and understanding, for yourself and for the others. True religiousness has nothing to do with violence and anger, with intolerance and harming others.
If “AV, CV, Tahir” was not so much closed in his own ego, if he was more open to the boats and helicopters Allah sends to him, I would suggest to him some active meditative techniques in order to move his energy and get out of the grasp of his mind. Many contemporary people concentrate too much in their heads. “The head will go round and round thinking, brooding, philosophizing; it knows only words, logic, argument. But it is very infertile; you cannot get anything out of the head as far as truth is concerned, because truth needs no logic, no argument, no philosophical research. Truth is so simple; the head makes it so complex. Down the centuries philosophers have been seeking and searching for the truth through the head. None of them has found anything, but they have created great systems of thought. I have looked into all those systems: there is no conclusion… And the most basic revolution in man will come when the heart decides the values. It cannot decide for war, it cannot go for nuclear weapons; it cannot be death-oriented. The heart is life's juice. Once the head is in the service of the heart, it has to do what the heart decides. And the head is immensely capable of doing anything, just right guidance is needed; otherwise, it is going to go berserk, it is going to be mad. For the head there are no values. For the head there is no meaning in anything. For the head there is no love, no beauty, no grace ― only reasoning.” - Osho
Houston, we have a problem here!
Nafs roger that.
Aliya,
Rajneesh also got caught in his own web. Is it Rajneesh or Osho?
Would you answer it? You took my bait. I love it, when my plan works. It took awhile to work. All it matters to me is that it worked. You are in my hook now. Truth always triumphs over falsehood. Truth shall make you free. What a way to start my weekend?
You are hooked now. I am not going to let you go. You will remember me for a long time.
I agree with Lily: “ The endless argumentation going on and on in here is getting tiresome! Is this a forum now, a discussion board, where people build chasms rather than bridges??!! And people showing off, and people provoking only for the sake of it...
Some arguments are downright bigoted and intellectually dishonest; not worthy of reply. Why bother”?
Your posts are not worthy of my reply. I now realized that you have tremendous desire for attention, approval, and sympathy. You engage in mindless chatter.
AV
Dear AV/CV/Tahir,
Quran has come directly from GOD via his messanger...No arguments. We respect it.
Vedas(/Bhagwad Geeta): Is directly told by the Almighty. Why it should be of lower importance?
Bible involves the SON of GOD. Why its not powerful.
Basic point is what has not come from that lord? If he has said Quran, he has created the masters.
Tell me which has not been created by him?
And Prophet Muhammed said he is the messanger bringing Quran. Why should you believe that and why one can't believe that his/her Master is enlightened / GOD realized?
And controversies surrounds everyones life. You are saying so much against Osho. Search the web hardly any site will give a positive remark on Prophet Muhammed.
Now its ones belief how they are carrying it.
If I will say a stone is the symbol seeing which I am feeling the presence of the LORD with me what is the harm?
Its just like seeing my parents photo when I miss them. And ofcourse I am not mad to think the photo as my parent.But seeing it always gives the strength.
Beliefs are different, worships are, styles different why can't you accept it.
If its all the same, how boring it would have been !
See you own brother his method of worship, his belief will also differ from you. Its the beauty.
I didn't find anything bigoted, except your stubbornness.
Why do we do all this:obey, follow, copy? Why? Because we are frightened inwardly to be uncertain. We want to be certain, we want to be certain financially, we want to be certain morally,we want to be approved, we want to be in a safe position, we want never to be confronted with trouble, pain, suffering, we want to be enclosed. So, fear, consciously or unconsciously, makes us obey the Master, the leader, the priest, the government. Fear also controls us from doing something which may be harmful to others, because we will be punished. So behind all these actions, greeds, pursuits, lurks this desire for certainty, this desire to be assured. So, without resolving fear, without being free from fear, merely to obey or to be obeyed has little significance; what has meaning is to understand this fear from day to day and how fear shows itself in different ways. It is only when there is freedom from fear that there is that inward quality of understanding, that aloneness in which there is no accumulation of knowledge or of experience, and it is that alone which gives extraordinary clarity in the pursuit of the real. - J. Krishnamurti, The Book of Life
God says: “Whoso striveth after Us, verily We shall lead them upon Our paths,” [Qur’ân, XXIX: 69] and indeed the true believer looks unceasingly for one who will take him to God, or at the very least he looks for the spiritual gifts which lie hidden within him, that is, for the primordial human nature which he has lost sight of and in virtue of which he is human.
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